07/11/1999
IWDM Study Library
AT University Greensboro, NC

By Imam W. Deen Mohammed
[clapping]
Imam Warith: Thank you, praise be to G-d. We praise G-d. Muslims say Al-Hamdulillah, praise is for G-d. I remember being in Morocco, and the King of Morocco, he finally came out after we waited for, I don't know, two or three hours. Big gathering was there for the recital of Quran, during the month of Ramadan, as a guest of the King of Morocco.
He finally came out and I was tired, legs hurting from sitting so long waiting. I was seeing him as a big and self-important man that was not really Islamic in his character, to have all those people waiting for him, so long. He come up with big nice car, followed by maybe 10 or 20 more big nice cars. I was a little peeved.
[laughter]
When he got out, after they got through cheering, the first words he said was, "Al-Hamdulillah." That just took all the bad feelings away from me. I said, "This man didn't say anything before he told them, 'praise is for G-d.'" [laughs] He had me from that moment on. I always have to say that when people are cheering me. I remember the way that he helped me and I hope I have the same effect on you that he had on me, when I said, "Praise be to G-d." Praises for G-d, and we are nothing without G-d.
It's only because, as our Prophet, Muhammad said, "If anyone has something that he values or something that's a good merit in him, it's because of the mercy of G-d," and his follower said, "What about you, oh messenger of G-d?" He said, "The same goes for me." Any man or woman has anything that we can be proud of, is because of G-d and that is to keep us humble in spirit.
Not proud in spirit, keep us humble in spirit, so that we can live with each other and be brothers and sisters. We get too big-headed, we can't live with each other and we stop being brothers and sisters. [laughs] I used that as an opportunity to speak. To some of us in the audience, not this immediate audience, every speech I give, they take it and they put it on the national broadcast, so this is going to go on the national broadcast.
I'll be speaking to a bigger audience and I know there'll be a lot of big egos somewhere, in that audience. They're going to be out there, so I hope they'll be reached by what I said of the King of Morocco, little man too. Little man like my father was. He looked like he was about five, five and a half maybe at the most. Little small man came out, hardly could see him. He was peeping up like that, so the people could see him, but a powerful little man. My father was a powerful little man. He was, powerful little man.
Before going into my talk, I want to share this with you. Recently, Chicago Magazine -- The title is Chicago; it listed the Hon. Elijah Muhammad among 100 persons, who most influenced the history of Chicago, the life of Chicago. Even more recently, in fact, I just sent in my vote, the Sun-Times, listed my father among a hundred men, a hundred people, pardon me, and it's going to go over a hundred. Finally, they're going to reduce it down to 100, as a person who've left imprint on the life of Chicago.
Selected by Sun-times, didn't only affect Chicago, this Chicago newspaper, talking about Chicago. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad has affected, people, African-American people, throughout the United States, all over these United States and outside of these United States, in Africa, in the Caribbeans, everywhere. Most of us don't realize this, but The Honorable Elijah Muhammad has also affected White Americans. He touched them very deeply; he shocked them to look at themselves all over again. The Honorable Elijah Muhammad has been the biggest psychological, I would say, gunfire in America, in this whole history here. He had been biggest gunfire, psychological gunfire.
A shot that was fired and touched the ring of it, touched the souls and minds of everybody that was in hearing range, to hear that shot. Many of them are getting acquainted with him, for the first time now, and believe me, their shock, may not be as severe or violent as the shock that came to Whites or Blacks, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years ago. Still, it's a powerful shock, when you hear what the Hon. Elijah Muhammad had to say.
I came to appreciate Frederick Douglass very much because Frederick Douglass-- we know him as an orator, we know him as a person who was a slave. He left slavery, got his freedom, came up North. Freeman became a statesman. I know him as a person who knew how to select the words that would go to the very core of the life of the people that he was speaking to, to bring about the greatest change possible, in those people.
He made a statement, he said-- You claimed Christ Jesus, he said, "That's my savior" also, he said but your behavior is such that will shame a nation of savages. I know every white man that read that with a sober mind, even with a befogged mind or half-drunk, had to be shocked by that and touched by it. I'm sure it kept ringing over and over in his ears until he died.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad had that same skill, as a psychologist, a lay psychologist, to find words and put them in a language that would penetrate deep into the hearts and souls of the people, to shock them, to see what they didn't want to see. What their own spirit and own thinking wouldn't permit them to see. Now, I'm here on this campus, and they know who I am the son of Elijah Muhammad. Well, nobody is treating me like I'm an alien. They treat me like I'm a citizen of Greensboro. It's a wonderful day we're living in. I feel like shouting.
[clapping]
[laughs] I do, I could shout right now. [laughs]
We have two supreme sources of information and guidance for Muslims that come from the religion. The holy book first, and then the messenger of that book. The human being that G-d revealed that book too, who preached in on this earth and showed us how to live it. Muhammad the prophet of Arabia, peace be upon him. I want to go to the first source, first. Number one source is the Quran, the holy book of Muslims called the Qur'an or Quran.
In English Quran, they say Quran, but I think a lot of English speaking people are beginning to say Qur'an, it's difficult, it's like the 'R' in Spanish, Qur'an. Qur'an, like burro in Spanish. burro .If you took Spanish, you know what I'm talking about. You have to roll the 'R' a little bit
Qur'an- Qur'an so that's Al- Qur'an - Qur'an. In the Holy book of the Muslims, we're told you'll find the nearest to you, to be those who call themselves Nazarenes. Now, that was the name for the Christians, among the Arabs in that part of the world. The name for the Christians was Nazarians. The word Nazarian in Quran, the Arabic language of-- Quran is Arabic language-- is in Arabic language is Nasara-Nasara, is the Nazarians. You'll find the people to be nearest to you-the nearest people to you, to be the Nazarians or the Nasara-- That is the Christians.
I have support for what I am going to present to you already from the most authentic source, available to us as Muslims and as our Holy book, the Quran, where G-d says to Muslims, to all of us that we will find the Christian people to be the nearer to us. The nearer to us in what respect? The nearer to us as a community. The Christian community is the closest to our community in likeness or in resemblance. They're the closest to our community. Now, we know that the Jewish community is the closest to us, in it's definition or attempt to identify G-d.
Judaism insists that G-d is one and one alone. Islam insists that G-d is one and G-d alone. But, how come Muhammad the prophet would tell us, the community of the Christians are the closest to us. G-d revealed it to him. It came as revelation. Why would he tell us that, if we had very serious differences-- Our difference with the Christians. The truth is the Trinity is a mystery. I repeat. The Holy Trinity is a mystery. Christianity like Judaism and Islam says G-d is one, one G-d. There's a mystery of the Trinity, that is not given in Islam and not permitted in Islam nor in Judaism.
The people who believes in the Trinity, they also believe G-d is one, and they say G-d is one. Now, there's much I would like to say to you, but time won't permit it. I better stick to my notes and stick to the script here, so we won't be here two hours instead of one. I'm going to say many things that may surprise some of you because you have seen or have been advertised. Maybe most of what has been advertised is not true Islam. A lot of what is advertised is not true Christianity.
How do you know Mister, you're not a Christian? Maybe I am. Maybe I'm a better Christian than most of your Christians that you're listening to. At the same time, I'm a good Muslim. If Christian means to believe in Christ Jesus that he is the Christ and that he had no father. That he was born of the Holy Blessed Mother Mary. That he's assigned to mankind. If that is what it means to be a Christian, to believe in him, I believe in him, so I'm a Christian and I'm a Muslim. I'm a follower of Muhammad the prophet, the one that G-d revealed this to.
I should mention some support for what I'm going to say. One of the supports that I offer to you-- I won't give any quotes from it, but this book says a lot about Islam, as a religion that has much in common with Christianity. As religion of peace, as a religion of unity, as a religion of mankind, as all people, and as a religion that comes to promote freedom. Announce and promote freedom.
This book is a Sourcebook. That's what is on the cover of this book, says a Sourcebook. S-O-U-R-C-E-B-O-O-K. In one word, a Sourcebook. The title of the book is Liberal Islam, edited by Charles Kurzman. K-U-R-Z-M-A-N. It can be gotten from New York Oxford University Press. Recently, for the history of Muslims in America, there was-- formed a group of professional, social scientists and social workers. Now, I imagine that among them, perhaps those whose profession or-- whose careers may different from social science, upon the social workers, but originally form, as the social scientists and social workers.
They have a publication out called the Minaret of Freedom. It comes out pretty regularly. I think monthly. I know it's at least quarterly- seasonally. It's a monthly publication. I have read several of these publications. They present Islam in the same way that this Sourcebook on Islam as a liberal religion presents Islam. There are many other books and authors that I could mention to you, who would support what I'm saying. What I'm going to present to you today. At least would support the main-the main ideas that I'm going to share with you today.
As I understand Christianity, I'm a student of the Bible, in fact, when I began to follow my curiosities from the Nation of Islam, the ideas that my father presented of religion, of Islam. My curiosity took me to the Bible first, then to World Mythology. I was already a believer in Quran because that's the Holy book of the Nation of Islam. Temple of Islam, that's the Holy book there, the Quran. I was already a believer in the Quran, but I didn't know the Quran. I hadn't studied enough to not really know it.
But I said, "First, I wanted to look at these things that my father used." The Nation of Islam was using. They were using-- the believers were using Bible, following my father. They were using more Bible quotes than Quran quotes. Mostly, teaching from the Bible. I studied the Bible. When I went through the Bible, I made up my mind. I said, "I'm not going to go through it, skipping about, scanning, going here and there, following my impulse, where I'm going to read." I said, "I'm going to start in the beginning of the book. I'm going to read everything." I did. I read everything.
Then, into the Bible, Genesis, from the first of Genesis to the end of Revelation. I read it through. I made up my mind that I wouldn't take notes the first time because I didn't want to be interrupted. I didn't take notes. I just read it through. I read the Bible for a second time, from Genesis to Revelation.
I took notes. It took me much longer, but I made notes, a lot of notes. That Bible exists somewhere, now. I don't know where, but in one of the homes that I've lived in, with one of the relatives or somebody that lived with me, has that book. Somebody has it or still on the shelf somewhere or somewhere packed away maybe. If you could see that book, you'll know every page has something that caught my attention because I got marks on every page. I took those and bookmarked. On every page, I was indicating something that I had been attracted by something.
I finished the Bible, twice. I read it twice. Read it once, to read it. Read it a second time, to study it. I believe I'm familiar with the Bible. I believe G-d has inspired me to do more than just read its print, but to read its meanings. I believe G-d inspired me also to read its meanings. I don't want you to think that I'm speaking with no authority. I think I'm speaking with authority.
Let's begin now. Christianity's invitation to individuals, to pick up the cross. We know that not all Christians don't wear crosses. I remember when I was younger, when I was a teenager, I used to see Christians going to church. They were Catholic maybe. I saw many of them wearing crosses, going to church. Many of them wearing the cross, going to church. I don't see too many Christians wearing the cross.
The invitation in the Bible is not for you to wear a physical cross. You can do that if you like. The invitation in the Bible is for you to carry the cross. Jesus said, "And, pick up my cross." Jesus said this. Jesus invites everybody to pick up his burden, and his burden is the cross. He picked up my cross. Bear the cross of Jesus, to pick up that cross. Now, we know how the old disciples understood that.
They understood that to mean that they were to accept the dangers that Jesus faced of being hated, rejected, persecuted and even killed. They were to take up the burden of endangering themselves, and their loved ones, et cetera, to carry the message of Christ or the message of the Gospel. That's what it meant. Scholars, students of scripture, we are able to see even the deeper reading, a deeper reading than that. It means just what Al-Islam tells us, that everybody should accept responsibility for your own self. Accept responsibility for your own self.
Take up your cross; accept the responsibility for your own self. That is, G-d holds you responsible, directly, not through a priest, not even through Jesus Christ. G-d holds you responsible directly for your obedience to G-d. The cross is really the human figure, the vertical and horizontal. This is the cross. That's why he's put up there like that. The cross is this. This is the cross. The cross is balanced-balanced. The tightrope walker has to do this, to get the maximum skill for balancing. He has to do this. The bird goes like this balancing upon the air.
This is really the man, the human. It's the human. It's the human in balance. Our responsibility is to G-d. To carry our life in the balance that G-d created it to be in. Now, I know many of you think that in Islam they say, "The cross, that symbol, it belongs to idolatry." Why would he speak like that? Why would Muhammad, the prophet, tell his followers, "And see that none of you break a cross." In war, when they were fighting, he told them, "Don't break a cross."
You'll find that in the collections by Bukhari and Muslim, the Hadith- the collections by Bukhari and Muslim. Christianity invitation is for individuals to be responsible to G-d, for their own lives. Islam's invitation to individuals is the same; be responsible to G-d, for your own lives. Is any Muslim spared from the obligation or spared the obligation of Jihad? No. We have two Jihads in Islam, and again this comes from the prophet.
The prophet said that the war that you fight, physical war with swords and with the arrows, shooting arrows, et cetera. He said, "That is the Asghar." I'm using the Arabic term he used. He said, "That Jihad is the Asghar." It is the smaller Jihad. That's the smaller Jihad? Going in battle, physical combat, risking my physical life. I'm going to maybe be shot by an arrow and die or my head will be severed from my body or be pierced in the side with a sphere, and dead? You're telling me there is a greater Jihad than that? Muhammad said it. Peace be upon him.
He called that Jihad Al-Akbar, the greater war. What is that Jihad? It is to pick up your cross and bear it. That's Christian language. Now, I put it in your Islamic language. It is to accept to struggle in this life, to the beginning, to the end, until you die. To keep your own nafs --that's Arabic for soul - self, your own soul, as G-d wants you to keep it. You have to struggle to keep your own soul, the way G-d wants you to keep it.
That's being responsible for your own self. You have to struggle to keep your life as Allah wants it, as your maker, as your creator wants it. According to what he has revealed. That's your personal struggle that you have to accept until you die. Is that any different than the Christian bearing his cross until he dies? No. It's the same thing said in different languages.
Bear with me, I'm trying to see. Now, can we see G-d with our eyes, these eyes, these physical eyes? Christians will say, "No." Muslim will say, "No." Jew says, "No." So, how are we different?
[laughter]
We all say, "No. We can't see Him with these eyes." G-d said to Moses who went up in the mountain to see Him, "Not with these eyes." He wanted to see Him with the rational eye of his brain. He went up there to see G-d with his rational mind. G-d had invited him to come up. He came to the sacred mountain, the Mountain of Tur, and G-d invited him to come up. G-d spoke to him and invited him to come up.
He went up into the mountain and he said, "G-d, permit me to see you." G-d says to him, this is Quran and it's very much the same in the Bible. You cannot see me directly. Therefore, look at the mountain. If the mountain stays as it is, you will see me. Moses was not an educated man. He was a man of mother wit and just natural ability. He looked at the mountain and fainted. The mountain disappeared, he fainted. The mountain disappeared. That says that Moses did not see G-d, not on that trip.
[laughter]
Islam is a religion of peace. Christianity is a religion of peace. Christmas comes, what do you hear in the air?
[singing]
Holy night-- Peace-peace it is, to the world. Islam is religion of the unity of mankind. Islam says that all people descended or came from one ancestry, one and the same ancestry. My beginning as a biological life body or as a genealogical body began as yours, whether you're white, black, brown, red, whatever. Our biological and genealogical life goes back to the first parents according to religion.
Science also says that we are biologically one, we are genealogically different, depending on our circumstances, our history, our past, et cetera, which says that if we all had the same geographical beginning and the same circumstances, physical, climatic circumstances, environmental circumstances, we would not be genealogically different even by science rules, by the rule of science. Actually, religion and science are saying the same thing. Whether we call it fact or theory, they're saying the same thing.
The oneness of mankind, we are all one human family. Religion goes further than that. Religion want to show us the ABC blocks first, like little children. Give us ABC blocks first, to play with, to learn how to say ABC and put the CAT make cat-- spell cat. Later, religion want to give us something abstract. Religion is telling us more than that we are biologically the same. The religion is telling us something that will help us unite and help us work for the same great destiny on this earth.
The religion is saying that we are soul-wise the same. We are soul-wise. S-O-U-L, you know soul brother? Soul-wise, we are soul-wise the same. That's exactly what the Quran says, that he made you from one soul. He caused that soul to become two souls. Split and become two souls. That's 1400 years ago when that came to Muhammad, the prophet. Isn't that the description that science gives us now, of how life itself begins from a simple one cell?
That one cell splits and it joins together as two cells. The two split becomes four and they multiply and this keeps splitting and joining to make a complex body like the human body. The greatest computer ever made and there will never be another one made that equally in no-wise.
[clapping]
The human being, the religions are saying the same. We descended from one ancestry. Working for what? What is this for? What is this language for? To prepare us to live together because the challenge of material life and spiritual life on this earth, as we multiply and become more educated and more scientific to utilize the material things. If we don't have better minds to live with each other, we're going to destroy each other and destroy ourselves.
Actually, G-d came with revelation not to prepare us for Noah's time so much. Noah's time just came during the Age of Aquarius, in the United States. Not so much to prepare us for ancient time, but to prepare us for the ends of things. G-d knows the beginning and the ending. He inspired men to see how this all is going to be concluded. How is this going to be concluded? What is this rush for the material things is going to do for man eventually, way down the road, when you become much wiser, more powerful?
They looked down the road. G-d inspired them to look down the road and see the consequences, see the end results. In religion, the term is used eschatology, for the end results of things. Islam, our revelation, our scripture addresses the end results of things. The Bible addresses the end results of things. We look at Revelation and we see how mysterious it is, see how difficult it is to read and understand, Revelations in the Bible, the last chapter of the Bible.
We look at the early chapters, the early scriptures that was revealed to Muhammad, the prophet. We see how difficult it is to understand. The early scriptures to Muhammad are of the nature of the last scripture of the Christians, Revelation, the book called Revelation. Not quite the same though. Use a bit of good sense here, when you're listening to me. Not quite the same, but similar in nature. The scriptures are similar in nature, as for literature, as for the quality and type of literature. They are similar in nature, Revelation, the last book and the early chapters versus Quran that was revealed to Muhammad. They are very similar.
Yes. All of this is to prepare us. Allah says in Quran that he made everything in pairs-in pairs- male and female. It says, "And look at the plants." It says, "Likewise for them, the animals and the plants, likewise for them." Science has brought us to see that even stone and steel and everything has pairs; negative and positive-negative and positive. What the Quran says even goes for the molecular structure of matter itself, in pairs- negative and positive. I repeat, G-d revealed to Muhammad that He made everything in pairs.
Man, that's to tell man, and G-d says, only G-d is singular and exists singular-singular, needing no mate to exist. He is the singular, existing without need for another and he overcomes, overpowers everything. Nothing can overpower him.
Al-Qahhar, for you who study Arabic, that's the name. Al-Qahhar, He is the one existing without mating or anything. It's said plain in the Quran. When He wants a son-- This is the difference we are pointing to now. I have already told you that the difference appears to be difference on the surface, but when you look deep, G-d inspires you to see the deep language. You will see that there's no difference.
There is another meaning; there is a mystery that blocks our understanding that blocks our sight. We can't see-- get the understanding. Says, "When He wants a son, he takes a son from the ones that He have created." That's what G-d says to us, in Holy book, says, "When He wants a son, He takes a son from those that He already created." Is this different with the idea of the Immaculate Conception? No. It has nothing to do with that at all. No, it doesn't interfere with that belief at all.
Islam, Allah says in the Quran that she had not been touched by any mortal, same as Christianity. Mary, the blessed Mary of Jesus Christ, peace be upon them both, says, "She had not been touched by any mortal." She was surprised, herself when she knew that she was conceiving a child, having a child- conceiving. The angel had to be sent to her to explain what's happened, so she could live with it and understand or at least live with it and bear that burden without trouble. The angel came to her and told her that she was going to have a child and that child would be a blessed child and would be a servant and messenger of G-d. This is Quran, similar to the language of the Bible.
If any Christian asks you, "Do you believe in Jesus Christ?" If you understand your religion, sister and brother, in Muslim, you have to say yes. If you don't say yes, you haven't yet, taken your Shahada. Why? Because Muhammad, the prophet, peace blessing be upon him. When people came to him from Christianity-- if they came to him from paganism -- from the Jahiliyyah, they didn't have to say.
They didn't have to add anything to their Shahada. If they came to him from Christianity, they had to add; I witnessed that there is one G-d. I witnessed that Muhammad is the messenger of G-d and I witnessed that Jesus Christ is a messenger of G-d; servant and messenger of G-d, as Muhammad, servant, and messenger of G-d. That's the Shahada, for people who got converted from Christianity to Islam.
When you read the Quran, you find a similar language that you find in the language announcing the birth of Jesus Christ, in the Bible. There's a similar language in the Quran, in the chapter, Mariam-Mariam, name for the mother of Jesus. Mariam is Mary, the blessed Mary. Our religion is the religion of unity, oneness, and unity. The unity is more important than the diversity. G-d says to us man, really speaking directly to leadership, world leadership, men who have been responsible for forming our minds, forming the minds of the public.
G-d says to them, "Man, think not that your creation is a bigger matter than the creation of the heavens and the earth." The creation of the heavens and the earth, simply put, the creation of material things, it's not a haphazard creation, as G-d says in the Quran, say, "Look at it, do you think this is a haphazard creation?" It is the system of matter, is held together in a unity. It's the system of matter held together in a unity and expresses itself in a diversity.
Its diversity is supported by its unity, and not its unity supported by its diversity. This is the creation itself. I'm not just making statements. There's going to be an opportunity for you to ask me questions, at the end of it. Now, if you don't know what you talking about, please don't ask me a question.
[laughter]
Save your time-- save yourself time and save me time. If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't ask me a question. There was a young fellow-- an old man told me this. He said, "Wallace--" We were welders, welding together. I was assigned to him; he was supposed to break me in on the job. He hadn't even known me. He didn't know what kind of person I was. I guess he said, "Well, I'm going to make sure I don't have any problem with you."
He said, "Wallace ." He said, "The young fellow once, you see he was working with an old man." He said the old man was trying to show him thinking, every time, the old man opened his mouth, the young fellow was telling him what he knew." Saying, every time the young fellow told him something knew, the old man said, "Where did you get that from?" He said something else, the old man said, "Who told you that, where did you get that from?" When he finished, the old man said, "Well you don't know a goddamn thing, on your own."
[laughter]
Excuse the language.
[laughter]
He got me ready to be taught, how to weld and how to handle that job, on that table.
[laughter]
The concept for this belief in the unity and oneness of G-d and the unity of matter is called Tauhid in Arabic, in Islam. It's called Tauhid. The concept of Tauhid supports all other concepts. No other concept in the Muslim language exists except is supported by Tauhid. It has to be supported upon Tauhid. The unity of G-d, G-d is one. There's unity in him, not division and conflict in him. The unity of matter, we know a matter has conflicts but the unity is stronger than the conflicts.
The oneness is stronger than the diversity and the unity is stronger than the conflicts. The unity eventually overcome all the conflicts. The conflicts come and go. The unity abides forever. Now, we believe in the unity, but also, we believe in the opposites, in the diversity, and in the opposites. That G-d multiplies everything or increase everything upon the principle, or rule of mating opposites, duality, mating opposites. When we look at the material world, we see concrete, we see it concrete.
As we become wiser, we see the world in its abstract. When we're talking about atomic energy, we're talking about an abstract. When we're talking about universal gravity, we're talking about an abstract. When we're talking about magnetism, that most of us are familiar with- magnets, magnetism, we're talking about abstracts. Tell me, which is this part-- which is the stronger, the concrete or the abstract?
In the material scheme, the energy out of the matter can move more matter, than matter can move, in the same quantity. When we look at this big world, this big earth body, we are on right now, weighing six sextillion tons.
[laughter]
Supported out there in space and we think of Jupiter, even much bigger, Jupiter much bigger, in body and mass, floating in space. When you ask the scientists to study the heavenly bodies and gravity, what's holding them up there? He says, "An abstract-an abstract. Now, not only-- I'm still talking about similarity for Christianity and Islam. Not only is the material world like that but also the human world is like that. Not only is the abstract more powerful in terms of force, but the abstract, in the human world, is the more precious, the more valuable-the more precious, the more valuable.
We look at each other and we think we see each other. Yes, you, "Oh yes, I that's Imam Wallace Deen Mohammad." But you who never saw me before, you didn't know who this was. You didn't know who was Wallace Deen Mohammed, up here. If you never saw a picture of me or me before, you didn't know who was Wallace and I'm sitting right here before you. Now, if I said nothing and walk pass you every day, every minute of the day and you saw me physically, you would have not seen me truly. You might see another person that looks just like me and that would be Wallace. Really, seeing me physically is not truly seeing me. You have to see my mind. You have to see my emotion-- not my emotions or my emotionality. You have to see my mannerism. You have to see my thinking, to see me. The greater me is not my physical body that weighs 190 now, and I'm trying to get that weight down. I'm struggling. I got a Jihad going against fat.
[laughter]
Well, you wouldn't see me. You wouldn't know me. You have to see me inside, to know me. You have to see the abstract person, to really see me. Now, can't you see why it's so important for us to identify as spiritual beings and why the religion put so much importance on the spiritual life. That's to tell us that the physical is not the real, the spiritual is the real. This physical is just a house, the real. The Bible calls it the house, is it? Calls the body a house. A house for the nafs, that's Arabic, a house for the soul-- for the self that's inside.
In Quranic language, self, and soul, the same word, not two different words, self and soul, the same word. We say soul; you get spooky, so let's say self. They're all spooked up when you say, soul. Self, the abstract person, the person, the true person is yourself. Your true self, inside your body, that's the true you. That's what's so precious and valuable. That's the human being that G-d made, although He made us biologically, too, we know that.
He made the physical world; we evolved out of the physical world, so we have this body from the earth. He told the angels, He said, "When I have breathed into him," that body, that physical body, "of my own spirit, then accept him." G-d wasn't saying that just because we have this physical body, we're some great thing, but this physical body is a great house, designed to house a great thing or even greater thing, human life, the abstract person. This is Christianity and this is Islam.
Islam wants us to see human society and, likewise, Christianity want us to see the sacredness of individual human life, but it also want us to see the sacredness of the group life, the human community. In the Bible, it's congregation-congregation, especially G-d gospel, the congregation. In Islam, it is Juma'ah. Juma'ah means gathering, congregation. Using different language for the same, isn't it? We're saying the same thing. Sunday is congregation day for the church, for most churches.
Friday is congregation day for the Muslims. The life of the collective body is more important, a bigger matter with G-d than the life of the individual body. Science now supports that. Individuals cannot become human unless they are a part of a group, a family, a human group. You can't even become human. If you're outside of the human family, in the wilderness with the animals, when they found you-- if you leave a baby there, when they find you, they've already proven this, they found
When they find you, you'll be imitating animals. You won't have human language. You won't have human ways. You won't have human life. Isn't it wonderful that religion discovers this before science? G-d says in Bible and in Quran that you weren't living until He puts something in you, of Himself. That's His will. He gave you something of His will, something of His spirit. Something of His will. Made you from a single soul, male and female, and obligated you to live as a family, made family. G-d is telling us how He made us.
He made us to have His will in us. We are born with the will of G-d in us and He made us to live as a family. That's the first social unit of civilized society, the family, as we are taught in the first course- social studies course, in junior college. They tell you, if you learn this, on the campus.
Christianity and Islam want us to see man as one soul, but man also as a composite soul, a soul of many souls. Many like souls existing together, a kind of confluent body, where all these souls are existing and touching each other.
Don't you know I'm touching you now, with my soul and you're touching me with your souls? Our souls go beyond our bodies. Our souls extend outwardly, like the energy extending from the material bodies, the plants. Our soul energies emerge with each other and when we find a groove, we flow together, souls, all together. The Quran says, "And your coming into life and your dying, is as one soul." Is as one soul. That tells me, as a scholar of this religion, I don't like to say I'm a scholar, the student of this religion.
That tells me, as a student of this religion that the collective body, the group soul is more important than the individual soul. Now, let me explain what I'm saying. We descended from one type, one soul, but we become different in the world of cultures. In the world of influences, we become different. Now, we can become so different that we've alienated ourselves, to become alienated from the original soul. We've taken on the soul of a rat, dog, ape, pig, take on all kind of souls. See, human being is a creature that can just adapt to anything.
You can adapt any life. You can adopt any life, you want to adopt. If you want to be King Kong, you can be. If you work at it, hard enough, nobody will know you from King Kong.
[laughter]
G-d has given us free will, free spirit, free will, free mind, free intellect, free mind, et cetera. This freedom permits us to just copy anything and become anything we want to become. Eventually, we can go so far from the original soul type that we become inhuman, not real human beings anymore. If we want to come back to the real human, we can't come back. One of us coming up with some idea. Dreaming up some idea for our reformation. It has to be a social reformation. It has to be a reformation for the society, not for the individual. You can't get a change when it maybe get so far from the life that we are really away from the human type that G-d made us. You can't get people to come back to that human type by teaching them good manners, by teaching them to be righteous, teaching them to be truthful and virtuous.
They have lost something deeper than that. They've lost the original soul. They have lost their original orientation for their mind, their thinking. You ain't going to get them back by preaching the holy sermon to them. You ain't going to get them to come back, but when they begin to worry, when one of them wake up, if G-d bless one of them. To wake up and realize that that group type is lost, the social pattern has been dropped or left abandoned, and that they need to come back to the social pattern and social order that they once had as humans beings, as a human society.
They want to be brother to each other and they want to have common cause for the whole group. They want to have a cause above every other cause. A cause that will make the whole group feel better, be safer, be more secure, have more opportunity to progress, et cetera. When they begin to think like that, they will be resurrected. They'll come back into life. Why? Because they'll go back to the composite soul of Adam, their father, and they'll be raised up again.
Now, Christianity differs a little bit with this by calling Jesus Christ the second Adam. The second Adam does not mean he's not Adam, it just mean he's Adam number two or Adam all over again. Now I'm ready to shout. I feel like I want to shout. You all got to hold me down, please. Yes, really, really. I'm very serious. The Bible says of Jesus Christ that he is the second Adam, that mean that he is another Adam.
How are we to understand that? He's another Adam. In Christianity, the first Adam sinned. He was right, he was straight, he was beautiful. According to Christian theology, the earliest Christian theology, he was a perfect being. G-d made him a perfect being. Satan the devil seduced him and caused him to come out of the dress and the form that G-d put him in. This is the same thing that G-d says to us in the Quran. Same thing. The two books are saying the same thing. If you read Luke, the Gospel, Luke, I'm pretty sure the long time since I have studied the Bible or read it. I remember chapter Luke, you'll find the genealogy of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him.
His genealogy is traced from his mother back to Adam. What would G-d prove to the world if Jesus Christ was just G-d and not really a human being like us? What would G-d prove to the world by him coming, if G-d comes and go through death, suffer death? Is that anything for G-d? That's something for me. I'm a mortal. I don't know life and death. I don't know the mysteries of life and death. If I lose my life that's a big deal for me, but G-d who knows everything and made everything and made life and death. It ain't no big thing for him to come here and show us how you go through death. That's a big thing for a mortal to show us how to go through death. Is that reasonable? Is that logic acceptable? That's what I've lived in for most of my life. Brings peace to my mind. Yes.
It ain't no big deal if G-d Almighty comes and go in a cross and accept death for us. "I'm going to save all you sinners. I'm going to save you from sin. I'm going to erase all your sins out with my blood with my death." That ain't no big deal for G-d. It was a big deal for a human being. We have to understand that Jesus Christ is more importantly human. That's how you appreciate him. That's his value and that's what the Quran tells us. He wants us to see that he's human and that's what makes his work so great. He's human. His works are not big for G-d, his works are big for human being.
Now, we have this life, the human life. We have the social life and the spiritual life. Still talking about the duality, too, the unity and the duality, the social life and the spiritual life. We are socially oriented as a life, as a species, and we are socially established. But the spiritual is more important than the social. The spiritual is more important than social because it is the spiritual that brings us to life. The spiritual takes us out of life but once we come into life, we have nothing but souls, now we got to put these souls in some houses so you need the social pattern for that.
Once we have our spiritual life, then we need to know the social pattern for that life in order to have establishment and progress, but without the spiritual life you can't have anything. Nothing. The spiritual is the bigger force. If we could ever get our spiritual life innocent, straight, we can overcome everything else. This is Christianity, this is Islam. If you give your soul to G-d you can manage everything. Everything else will be easy.
The materials we have to use in order to establish ourselves and progress, they are material and they are non-material, human. Human and material. The greatest benefit we get in life, in this world that we're in comes from human resources and from material resources. They support each other interchangeably. Sometimes the material resources are needed so bad in our life that we can't go any further with our human life until we catch up materially. Sometime the human life goes so far ahead of the material life that we can't really make progress with our human life until we catch up materially. I hope I said it right. You go so far the material life that you need to bring you a human life up in order to go further materially. You go so far with your material life that you have to bring human life back up.
The human life, yes. You go so far with the human life, you can't go no farther with it Why? Because your material life is so deficient, so you have to bring your material life up to advance yourself. This is the duality, isn't it? it's a duality and the business world is saying right now that we need to make notice of more human resources so that we can improve upon our material environment. That our material environment is really hurting our human life because we have neglected to carry our human resources forward and have brought too many material resources forward and left the human resources too far behind in the road.
This is the duality like the left and right foot. One has to support the other and advance it and then in turn, it supports that one and so we make progress in the road. This is what G-d has shown us but the road is not left or right. The road is a direction for both the left and the right. Some people are trying to walk without knowing where the path is.
[audience laughing]
Christianity and Islam want us to walk the path of G-d. The human life is going out there one minute, then sometimes they're taken both to hell and don't know it. Human life and material life both going to hell and they don't know it.
Now, spiritually fated. Both Islam and Christianity says life is spiritually fated. Spiritually fated. In Islam, we're told never will a change come for you until you accept the change, what is bothering your own soul. We have to have internal change before we could have external change. An internal change before we have an external change.
For some people, they have problem and they want to be helped from without. The Hon. Elijah Muhammad said to Dr. King, he said you could put the slum people in a palace,he said they will bring the slum into the palace. There are other leaders who say it differently. That's the way the Hon. Elijah Muhammad said it, and that's true. You have to have a change within. If you want to bring people who have been deprived of a decent life and are ignorant, they don't know the value of a decent life. You can't just change them by just simply taking them from a bad physical environment and put them in a nice one.
You won't get them. Maybe after a few generations, the physical environment will overcome them, overcome their bad habits if you watch over, you have to be responsible, though. You can't leave it with them. Keeping a physical environment for them, after two or three generations, maybe the problem will be over.
If you leave to them, you know what's going to happen. Both religions want a spiritual change for us. If we are not with G-d, if we're not with the higher cause with a higher purpose, both religions want a spiritual change for us, has to take place inside our souls. Once that takes place and we want to change some things about ourselves, "Well, I don't want this anymore. I don't like this anymore. I don't like what I'm doing anymore. I don't like my habits anymore. I want to drop these habits," that's the change from within and that's the change that gives you a new life.
That change gives you a new life, but as I said, I don't think I said it this way but I'm saying it this way now, we've been spooks too long. I'm speaking to African Americans, black folks now. We've been spooks too long. We can have spiritual life and be spooks. I don't want this for Muslims, I don't want it for Christians. Don't want it for any human beings to have a spiritual life and be spooks. You don't know the value of a dollar. You don't know the value of a nice home. You don't know the value of a nice neighborhood, but you got all the spirituality. You got all the holy ghosts. Or the Muslim, you got all the Rouhiya. Holy ghost. You got all the Rouhiya. You're filled up with the Rouhiya. But your life is funky.
[audience laughing]
Your house is bad health. Somebody else paying for you to exist. That's not human life. We have to find direction for our community life. That's the answer, direction for community life. Believe in the group, believe in society, have faith in society. Have faith in man and the individual that the individual can support the program for society. The individual could support the ideology, whatever you want to call it, the political theory or whatever you want to call it, the individual can support the idea for the community life.
That G-d have made him with the nature, with the spirituality, the emotionality, with the rational mind, et cetera, to support good society, good government and hold him responsible for that. Tell him you are owner in this.
That's another thing. Islam want us to see ownership. The individual is free, and a part of your freedom is based upon your right to property. G-d created this material world not for any particular race, he created this particular world for every child of Adam so you have an inheritance. You have a share in the material world. It's yours. No man made it. Everybody came upon here and found it and used it. You have as much right to it as any other man, or woman for you sisters. Yes. G-d says to us and our religion, "Seek the bigger life, the bigger goal, that's the hereafter, but don't forget your share in this material world. That's what G-d says in our holy book, "But don't forget your share in this material world."
Dunya, that's the material world, that's Arabic. It means simply that, this material world. Don't forget your share in this material world. Now, do you think Christianity is any different? No, it's not. Christianity is not a religion and a message that comes here to tell us to care about your soul on a Sunday. Have your biological body Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and bring your soul to G-d on Sunday, and feed it and go back to your secular life. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and come back for another charge or recharge on Sunday for your spiritual life and then keep you in that over and over again until you die.
You have been dissected. They have cut your life in two. Taking your spiritual life and gave it one day of the week, Sunday. In fact, you don't have that because as soon as service is over, sometimes doing the service. That biology is working. You're looking at Sister Sadie doing that shake, doing that spiritual shake, that holy ghost shake, and you got your mind on what you want to do with Sadie even while you're in the church.
[audience laughing]
Imam Warith: So really, there ain't no guarantee that G-d have your soul to himself on Sunday.
[audience laughing]
Imam Warith: They have you split. One dimension of your life going that way, another dimension of your life going another, and they never can meet and agree and work together, and you think that that Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sindays. Six days, sin days, and Sunday, holy day, sacred day. You got your life six days in sin and one day straight.
[audience laughing]
Imam Warith: [laughs] I just want you to see. I want you to see that the life we live is not the life of Christianity or Islam. The only way you can live the life of Christianity, you got to live in obedience to G-d and you got to have leaders in your religion with knowledge of how you're supposed to find the path and walk the path of G-d.
The ignorant can't teach you these things. I'm not mocking the church. I love people in the church. I love the church. I love the Christian people. I do, G-d knows I do. And no matter how cheap he is as a preacher. When I mean cheap, I mean when I look at the money, the currency of religion, he got about $0.35 maybe $09. Not even a dime. So cheap but do I say, "Look, that's stupid." No. I love him. He's sincere in what he's doing. I love him. He's doing some good. If he can do enough to put fingernail polish on the finger, that's good as long as he did a good job. He put fingernail polish on the fingers of the sisters when they came to church. You combed the brother's hair. Good. He did something. Good.
I just wish we could do more. I wish we could put the life in order. That's what G-d wants. G-d wants us to put our life in order. A message to the soul and a message to the society comes from both religions. You need the message to the soul to awake the soul and then you need the message to the society to establish the society. You need both. Both religions give us the same.
When we read of the second coming of Jesus, Christianity is not intend it to be just a spiritual life. From the read of the second coming of Jesus Christ, the second coming of Jesus Christ is the coming of the life and guidance to establish community life. The guidance and the life for community life, for life in community. Not just the spiritual congregation, a social congregation. Using the material resources to support the community life that G-d wants us to have.
In its mysteries, Christianity points also the way to scientific discovery, scientific exploration and discovery. Islam does the same and does it perhaps more clearly. Not by spiritual incentives so much as by also material incentives as well. That's the fire alarm, isn't it? [unintelligible 01:22:43] we know.
I don't want to see African-Americans live as spirits outside of their bodies in religion. I don't want to see them out of doors, out of a home, out of a social home, out of a community home, living as spirits and having no knowledge of how to put the spirit into a body. Bring the spirit home. No, I don't want to see that.
No person that understands what I understand would be able to see this and not share it with you. That's why television that mind, - soul train. They're trying to wake us up. Soul train. A lot of steam and still use the old, - no, this is the modern time. How come they don't get the diesel?
[laughter]
Because the diesel won't give the picture. Got to be soul train. Whistle blowing and steam coming out of the top. Don't think G-d hasn't given us leaders who could guide us out of this predicament. One of our writers report. I don't know what kind of philosopher [unintelligible 01:24:25] he said, "It seemed that somewhere along the way I have gotten separated from my social establishment." That was a Christian trying to tell us something.
Maybe going on, we're going with the spirit and let everybody else take the material world. We're working for them as their servants, as their employees, when G-d didn't intend it to be that way. G-d wanted us to be responsible for our social establishment. Ain't no way to have a social establishment without being involved materially. That's how man got to be involved materially.
His sex made him go and find a female. His sex drive, his sex urges, his sex appetite, sexual appetite made him go get a female. When he got her, he tied her up so much with that sex act that she say, "You got to go out here and get us something to eat. I got this baby. I've been here three months, four months. Carrying this. I can't go nowhere. You better go out there by yourself. You got to go out there and get us something to eat." She says, now the weather done changed, I'm cold, hell, get us some coats or something or learn how to build a house. Build something."
G-d made the leaves that cover up the birds from the rain. You build me something. This is how life started, right? This is how the community life started. Man wants woman. When he wants her, he tires up, get a baby. Now she tell him, "You got to take care of me and his baby." He loves her. He cherish the life that G-d had given him from her. So, he goes out and he starts working for her. He works devotedly, he works selflessly. He works because he loves what G-d has given him, a wife and child. Life from his own life. That's how the natural world came about.
He became a worker. He became more of a productive worker because of G-d mating him with a female. Creating him to mate with a female. We visited Red China. They took us on a tour of the graves. The guide pointed to the grave of a single person. He said, "This is a single person." Then, he pointed to the grave of a married couple. He says, "What the difference?" It was obvious. The grave of the married couple had ornaments and tools on top of the grave showing that they were productive, that they had some industry. Whereas the grave of the single person had nothing on it.
That's how we progress. We progress by mating. When you read in the scriptures and our scripture too, that G-d made the woman for us--
[fire alarm ringing]
You won't have to ring a third time. You won't have alarm the third time. I got your message. [laughs] We're going to have to get out of here. That's nine o'clock. Thank you. We're going to be out of here in 10 minutes, maybe five.
When you read in the Bible that G-d made the female for us as a help mate or as a help meet. Quran is saying the same thing. G-d made the mate for us so that we would find in her peace, tranquility. Tranquility. You are halves of each other and you are the protection for each other. Protection from what? The journey to G-d. You are protection for each other on the journey to G-d. They're saying the same. The religions are saying the same.
Helpmate and help meet means just what it's saying. How come they have to say help mate and help meet. Help mate means your mating. Help meet, not M-E-A-T. M-E-E-T, means to help you get to the destination. Help meet, someone that would help you get to the destination where you have to meet G-d at the end of the road, in the destiny.
[fire alarm ringing]
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Peace.
[clapping]
Will they give us five minutes or 10 minutes of questions? I think so because if it was fire, I think they would be in here by now.
[laughter]
I hope they don't think what I'm doing is throwing fire. I don't have a flame thrower
Imam Warith: This is water I'm putting out here buddy.
[applause]
Male 1: Please do not leave. The program has not ended. We're going to take some questions and comments for the Imam. We have a microphone in the middle aisle. If you will, form a line.
[background conversation]
John: Hello, my name is John. My first question is it's a honor to meet you, and I learned a whole lot from your father, the Hon. Elijah Mohammad and I learned a whole lot from him. What I would like to say is in response to your comment about Jesus-- about dying on the cross, why would G-d-- Theres nothing for G-d to die on the cross when--
Imam Warith: Yes. I was saying we shouldn't see the suffering of Jesus as a suffering of G-d. For G-d, that is nothing. For a human being, its a big deal. It is something.
John: It says in the Holy Quran that G-d is all-knowing.
Imam Warith: That G-d is what?
John: That G-d is all-knowing.
Imam Warith: All-knowing?
John: Yes.
Imam Warith: Yes.
John: Okay. Christians believe that--
[crosstalk]
Imam Warith: [unintelligible 01:31:35]
John: So they can know suffering. To experience death and to experience pain for Himself because before that, G-d did not know suffering. G-d did not know pain. He did not experience those things. Im not sure myself that G-d already know what was happening.
[beep]
Imam Warith: Okay, I heard you. Thank you. We dont believe in a G-d that has to experience something to know it.
Male 3: Of course, we are born in sin. You said we are born in G-ds will. The Christians have it that you are born in sin. I dont know if you could touch upon that.
Imam Warith: The idea for original sin is not in Islam. We have no idea of original sin in Islam.
Male 3: According to your message, what do you mean by born in sin?
Imam Warith: Born in sin?
Male 3: Yes.
Imam Warith: It means born under misguidance or born into a world of misguidance. Born into a world of sin. Thats what it means, born in sin. Born into a world of sin-- a sinful world.
[beep]
It doesn't mean born in flesh. Flesh is not sin. The mind is responsible for the flesh. Not the flesh responsible for the mind. The mind is the servant of the spirit. The flesh is the servant of the spirit and the flesh is the servant of the mind. Its not the flesh fault when we violate the laws of G-d with the flesh. Its the minds and the spirit. Its not the flesh's fault. Flesh is always ready to be obedient. Flesh is obedient. Flesh is a Muslim. Flesh is a good Christian, a good Muslim. That's what the flesh is.
Yes, theres another. I see, yes.
Male 4: Imam Warith Deen Mohammed, would you explain the Islamic perspective when one goes through a spiritual jihad against evil passion and how shaytan could easily influence certain factions that goes on that stops us from being obedient to G-d and how certain spiritual jihad like against evil passions like secret societies who don't believe in the wonders of Allah.
Could you explain the Islamic perspective on how we deal with these certain secret societies stopping us or hindering us from obeying Allah?
Imam Warith: All right. The time is past 10:00. I wish I had more time, because you hit upon some things that are very interesting and very important. Lets look first at Satan himself, the Shaytan-- Satan himself.
We should not think that Satan is bigger than G-d. We should not make Satan a G-d-- another G-d. Satan is not G-d. Satan is no match for G-d. Satan is no match for us if we refuse to follow him.
G-d says in our holy book that, Satan has no power over you except to invite you and you answer his invitation. The Bible says-- Since I'm making a comparison tonight, the Bible says, and rebuke Satan and he will run from you.
[applause]
Thank you. I wish I had more time to reply to your questions.
Female 1: I have about three questions [unintelligible 01:36:33]. Which version of the Bible would you suggest for them?
Imam Warith: If you can speak right into the microphone so I can hear you better, please.
Female 1: Okay.
Imam Warith: Get closer to the microphone.
[laughter]
Female 1: Which version of the Bible would you suggest Muslims to read?
Imam Warith: Which version of the Bible that Muslims should read?
Female 1: Yes.
Imam Warith: The Holy Quran version.
[laughter]
Read the Holy Quran. Thats your version.
Female 1: Also, can you expand upon the Muslim teaching about the crucifixion of Jesus?
Imam Warith: The crucifixion? Yes, we accept the Christians report of Jesus-- the Bibles report of Jesus being crucified. We do not perceive it or interpret it as they do. For us, its to be interpreted. For them, most of them, they accepted that he was actually crucified on a cross like that. We don't accept that.
We accept that there's another meaning for that. That he wasn't actually physically put on a cross and killed. It says he was not killed and he was not crucified. That's the Quran.
Female 1: Okay. Now, this question is probably directed for the non-Muslim community. Can you explain why Muslim women arent to marry Christian men?
Imam Warith: Why Muslim women marry Christian men?
Female 1: Are not--
Imam Warith: Are not permitted to-
Female 1: Yes.
Imam Warith: - to marry Christian men? Well, in most of the world, outside of the Western society, men have rights over women even in the court when it comes to who will take, who has rights over the children.
If a Muslim woman marries a Christian man and if she wants to divorce him or, pardon me marries a man in an Eastern society-- in the old world in an Eastern society, the man has the right. He takes the children.
In America, it might be changed a little. It's just the other way around. Most likely the women will get the children. I have my position as an Imam and also I have my position as a free thinker.
As a free thinker, my position is it would benefit us more to let our women marry Christian men if they can't find Muslim men, because there's more chance that she will get the children than it is that he will get the children under these laws that we have in the United States.
For the sake of unity, I take the position with the-- with the other Imams, the great majority of Imams in America and in the world, that Muslim women are not to marry non-Muslim men.
Female 1: Thank you.
Imam Warith: You're welcome.
Female 2: Thank you very much for coming. Taking the time out of your busy schedule.
Imam Warith: Thank you.
Female 2: My question for you is actually, how Muslims who have tried to follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the last prophet, Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam which for those of you who do not know is not Elijah Muhammad. How can we stay and remain on El Sirat El Mustaqim when we have leaders like yourself who go directly against the Quran and the Sunnah. For example, your statement made in the Muslim Journal [unintelligible 01:41:18] about women, their hair being their Hijab.
Imam Warith: Their hair? I can't-
Female 2: That their hair is their Hijab.
Imam Warith: They are what?
Female 2: Their hair.
Imam Warith: Is what?
Female 2: Is their Hijab.
Imam Warith: Their desire?
Female 2: Hijab.
Imam Warith: Hijab? I never said that. I never said the woman's hair is her Hijab.
Female 2: Alhamdullilah.
Imam Warith: I never said that.
Female 2: and in a setting such as this you called yourself the Mahdi.
Imam Warith: Call myself what?
Female 2: The Mahdi.
Imam Warith: Did I say that?
Imam Warith 4: Sister, you have bad information. You are just talking-
Imam Warith: No [inaudible 01:42:00]
Imam Warith 4: Yes, we're just talking about what he's saying tonight because your information is bad. Why don't you ask him some questions about what he's saying tonight?
Imam Warith: If you go to my home, and talk to my wife and children, and ask them who is The Mahdi? They won't know what you're talking about [laughter] They won't know what you're talking about [laughs]. Sister, I'm happy to be the smallest person on earth. I don't need any titles or anything. [applause]. As long as G-d loves me, and I love my G-d, and my G-d loves me. I'm satisfied for you all to you call me the smallest person on earth, and I'll be happy, and I won't be happy if you raise me up too high.
Female 2: Thank you. I'm not here to attack you. I'm here to get understand because Allah has said that Islam is clear [crosstalk] and simple and it's very difficult to say and try to practice the Quran and the Sunnah, when leaders such as yourself in the Muslim Journal, there are things that are not in the Quran and the Sunnah.
Imam Warith: Well, you keep saying things that are not true-
Female 2: Okay.
Imam Warith: -so I can't bear with you any longer, sister. We have to end the conversation.
Female 2: [unintelligible 01:43:19]
Imam Warith: I hope G-d guides you and me to the best way.
Speaker: Asalamu Alaykum, my question is, do I need to follow [inaudible 01:43:30] Islam and Christianity [unintelligible 01:43:39] have a believe in the Trinity and for the Muslim, it's not the same.
Imam Warith: How can we bridge the gap?
Speaker 5: Right. In the Christian world, they have a belief in the Trinity, and the Muslim, it's not permitted, so how do you suppose? That's to me is a great philosophical difference [unintelligible 01:43:53] [crosstalk]
Imam Warith: In the Quran got said of the Christians, when he said that we find them nearer of us. He speaks of their virtues, of their strong spiritual devotion et cetera, and he says that you'll find among them, monks and priests who celebrate the praises of G-d all the time, and they are so sincere. When they pray, their tears run down their cheeks, very sincere people. Well, I think-

[01:44:36] [END OF AUDIO]

